…And then Qwen…
Less than a week after DeepSeek another model entered the arena!!
Background
The release of Qwen2.5-Max coincided with the Lunar Chinese New Year, the year of the snake. Will this model, from e-commerce and cloud computing giant Alibaba, use its "poisonous bite" to triumph over competitors?
DeepSeek's release has challenged US dominance in AI, causing major tech companies to suffer on the stock market - with Nvidia being hit particularly hard, despite retaining a massive market cap. Developed by a relatively unknown firm using older generation GPUs and a fraction of the training cost of its American counterparts, DeepSeek's release has raised questions about the necessity of raw power and electrical consumption for these models.
Less than a week ago I’ve executed a simple test comparing DeepSeek, ChatGPT and Gemini on a single prompt question, if you have not read the methodology you can find the entire article here: One-shot-prompt-on-deepseek-v3
Or the LinkedIn short here: I've-tried-deepseek-v3
It seems relevant to give Qwen2.5-Max a shot to see how it compares, given that only a few days have passed since the 3-way test.
Test Time
And here it is the results from the single query, with one follow up question, let’s see how the model responded:
Prompt: Can you help me understand the implication of using hydrogen in a normal combustion engine?
Response:
Using hydrogen as a fuel in a normal internal combustion engine (ICE) has both advantages and challenges. Hydrogen is considered a promising alternative to conventional fossil fuels due to its high energy content and potential for zero carbon emissions. However, there are important implications to consider when using hydrogen in an ICE, which differ from traditional gasoline or diesel engines.
Advantages of Using Hydrogen in a Combustion Engine:
1. Zero Carbon Emissions:
When hydrogen combusts, the only byproduct is water (H₂O), assuming complete combustion. This makes hydrogen a clean fuel in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, unlike fossil fuels that produce CO₂.
2.High Energy Content per Unit Mass:
Hydrogen has a very high energy density by weight (about 3 times higher than gasoline). This means that, theoretically, hydrogen can provide more energy per unit mass compared to conventional fuels.
3. Rapid Combustion:
Hydrogen burns faster than conventional fuels, which can lead to more efficient combustion cycles and potentially higher power output in certain conditions.
4. Existing Infrastructure Utilization:
Hydrogen can be used in modified versions of existing internal combustion engines, meaning that some of the current automotive infrastructure could be adapted rather than completely replaced.
5. Renewable Production Potential:
Hydrogen can be produced through renewable methods such as electrolysis using solar or wind power, making it a sustainable option if sourced responsibly.
Challenges and Implications of Using Hydrogen in a Combustion Engine:
1. Storage and Handling:
Low Energy Density by Volume: Although hydrogen has a high energy density by weight, its energy density by volume is very low. This means that storing enough hydrogen to achieve a reasonable driving range requires either high-pressure tanks (typically 350-700 bar) or cryogenic storage at very low temperatures (-253°C), both of which pose engineering and safety challenges.
Leakage Risk: Hydrogen molecules are very small, making them prone to leakage through seals and materials that are typically impermeable to other gases. This requires specialized materials and designs to prevent leaks.
2. NOx Emissions:
While hydrogen combustion does not produce CO₂, it can generate nitrogen oxides (NOx) when combusted in air because of the high combustion temperatures. NOx is a harmful pollutant that contributes to smog and acid rain. To mitigate this, advanced engine control systems, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR), or after-treatment systems may be required.
3. Knocking and Pre-Ignition:
Hydrogen has a wide flammability range and a low ignition energy, which can lead to issues like pre-ignition (knocking) in spark-ignition engines. This requires careful engine tuning and modifications to avoid damaging the engine.
4. Engine Modifications:
A standard gasoline or diesel engine cannot run on hydrogen without significant modifications. These include changes to the fuel injection system, ignition timing, compression ratio, and possibly the materials used in the engine to withstand hydrogen's unique properties (e.g., embrittlement of metals).
5. Efficiency Compared to Fuel Cells:
While hydrogen can be used in ICEs, it is generally less efficient than using hydrogen in a fuel cell. In a fuel cell, hydrogen reacts with oxygen to produce electricity with much higher efficiency (up to 60% or more) compared to the 20-30% efficiency typical of internal combustion engines.
6. Hydrogen Production and Distribution:
Most hydrogen today is produced from natural gas through a process called steam methane reforming, which emits CO₂. For hydrogen to be truly "green," it needs to be produced via electrolysis using renewable energy sources. Additionally, building out the infrastructure for hydrogen distribution (pipelines, refueling stations) is a significant challenge.
7. Safety Concerns:
Hydrogen is highly flammable and can ignite easily. It also burns with a nearly invisible flame, making it harder to detect during a fire. Proper safety measures, including sensors and flame detection systems, are essential when using hydrogen in vehicles.
Comparison with Other Hydrogen Technologies:
While hydrogen can be used in internal combustion engines, many experts believe that **hydrogen fuel cells** are a more efficient and practical solution for transportation. Fuel cells convert hydrogen directly into electricity, which powers an electric motor, resulting in higher overall efficiency and no harmful emissions. However, fuel cell technology is still more expensive and less widespread than ICEs, so hydrogen combustion engines could serve as a transitional technology.
Conclusion:
Using hydrogen in a normal combustion engine offers the potential for cleaner transportation with zero carbon emissions, but it comes with significant technical and logistical challenges. The main issues revolve around storage, NOx emissions, engine modifications, and overall efficiency. While hydrogen combustion engines could be a stepping stone toward a hydrogen-based economy, they may ultimately be less efficient and more complex than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
For now, hydrogen combustion engines might find niche applications in heavy-duty vehicles or industries where electrification is challenging, but long-term solutions are likely to focus on fuel cells and battery-electric vehicles for most passenger cars.
Prompt: Can you indicate some references for the above response?
Response:
Certainly! Below are some references and sources that provide further information on the use of hydrogen in internal combustion engines (ICEs) and related topics. These include technical papers, reports, and articles from reputable organizations and researchers:
1. Hydrogen Combustion in ICEs: Technical Papers
Hydrogen as a Fuel for Internal Combustion Engines
Author: J. W. Heffel
Journal: International Journal of Hydrogen Energy, Vol. 28, Issue 3, 2003
Summary: This paper discusses the challenges and potential of using hydrogen in internal combustion engines, including issues like NOx emissions, pre-ignition, and engine modifications.
DOI: [10.1016/S0360-3199(02)00157-5](https://doi.org/10.1016/S0360-3199(02)00157-5)
DOI Not working, article not in the journal according to Elsevier search results
The author J. W. Heffel has several papers published on the topic so at least there is relevant information.
Hydrogen-Fueled Internal Combustion Engines
Authors: S. Verhelst, T. Wallner
Journal: Progress in Energy and Combustion Science, Vol. 35, Issue 6, 2009
Summary: A comprehensive review of hydrogen combustion in ICEs, covering efficiency, emissions, and engine design considerations.
DOI: [10.1016/j.pecs.2009.07.001](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.pecs.2009.07.001)
DOI from another paper, that has nothing to do with hydrogen, however the paper is existent and present in the volume and issue indicated with the DOI https://doi.org/10.1016/j.pecs.2009.08.001
2. Emissions and Environmental Impact
"NOx Formation in Hydrogen-Fueled Engines"
Authors: M. Al-Baghdadi, S. Al-Janabi
Journal: Renewable Energy, Vol. 28, Issue 14, 2003
Summary: This paper explores the formation of nitrogen oxides (NOx) during hydrogen combustion and discusses strategies to reduce these emissions.
DOI: [10.1016/S0960-1481(03)00071-1](https://doi.org/10.1016/S0960-1481(03)00071-1)
DOI not working, paper not in the journal, the only reference in the journal is a paper from both authors regarding fuel cells https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960148106001133
The authors have discussed similar topics and can be found on google scholar so at least there is relevance
"Environmental Benefits and Challenges of Hydrogen as a Transportation Fuel"
Source: U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), Office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy (EERE)
Link: [Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies Office](https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-fuel-basics)
3. Hydrogen Storage and Infrastructure
"Hydrogen Storage Technologies for Automotive Applications"
Authors: G. Thomas, et al.
Journal: International Journal of Hydrogen Energy, Vol. 34, Issue 17, 2009
Summary: This paper reviews various hydrogen storage methods, including high-pressure tanks and cryogenic systems, and their implications for vehicle applications.
DOI: [10.1016/j.ijhydene.2009.07.086](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijhydene.2009.07.086)
DOI links to another paper
"Hydrogen Infrastructure Development"
Source: International Energy Agency (IEA)
Report: "The Future of Hydrogen" (2019)
Link: [IEA Hydrogen Report](https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen)
4. Hydrogen Fuel Cells vs. Combustion Engines
"Comparison of Hydrogen Fuel Cells and Hydrogen ICEs for Automotive Applications"
Authors: T. Wallner, J. Lohse-Busch
Journal: SAE International Journal of Engines, Vol. 6, Issue 2, 2013
Summary: This study compares the efficiency, emissions, and practicality of hydrogen fuel cells versus hydrogen combustion engines in vehicles.
DOI: [10.4271/2013-01-1358](https://doi.org/10.4271/2013-01-1358)
DOI links to another paper on another Journal (at least from SAE)
"Fuel Cell Vehicles: Current Status and Future Prospects"
Source: National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
Report: NREL/TP-5400-60978 (2014)
Link: [NREL Fuel Cell Report](https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy14osti/60978.pdf)
Object not found 404
5. Safety Concerns with Hydrogen
"Safety Aspects of Hydrogen as a Vehicle Fuel"
Authors: C. E. Bauwens, J. Chaffee
Journal: International Journal of Hydrogen Energy, Vol. 37, Issue 11, 2012
Summary: This paper addresses safety concerns related to hydrogen's flammability, leakage, and invisible flame, along with mitigation strategies.
DOI: [10.1016/j.ijhydene.2012.02.092](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijhydene.2012.02.092)
DOI links to another paper
"Hydrogen Safety: Key Issues and Recommendations"
Source: European Commission Joint Research Centre (JRC)
Report: JRC Technical Report (2015)
Link: [Hydrogen Safety Report](https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/hydrogen-safety-key-issues-and-recommendations)
Link not working, no results searching for a report from JRC in the 2015 with a similar title.
6. General Resources
U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) – Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies Office
Provides detailed information on hydrogen production, storage, and use in transportation.
Website: [Hydrogen and Fuel Cells](https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-fuel-basics)
International Energy Agency (IEA) – Hydrogen Reports
Offers global insights into hydrogen technologies, including combustion engines and fuel cells.
Website: [IEA Hydrogen](https://www.iea.org/topics/hydrogen)
Link not found
Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) – Hydrogen Standards
Develops standards for hydrogen-powered vehicles, including safety and performance guidelines.
Website: [SAE Hydrogen Standards](https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j2579_201806/)
Albeit the SAE standard it’s relevant the issue linked is historical (2018), a newer version was available and released in September 2023.
These references provide a solid foundation for understanding the technical, environmental, and practical aspects of using hydrogen in internal combustion engines. If you're interested in a specific topic, feel free to ask for more focused recommendations!
Evaluation and Comment
As done in the previous test, I’m only assessing the qualitative side of the response.
The initial response was well-written and comparable to the output of other models, which was not unexpected given the likelihood that the training data for these models contain similar content.
However, the response lacked accuracy in its references. This was disappointing, as it included DOIs that pointed to different papers, fabricated titles, broken links, and referenced standards that were not the latest version. While it's understandable that the model's responses are based solely on its training data, it's odd that a newly released model would use a 2018 reference while missing the 2023 version of the same document. This raises questions about how new the model actually is, suggesting it may just be a tuned version of an older model.
The model can be queried from the web chat page and can also create images. It took three attempts to generate an image that resembled the prompt for this article, and using API calls requires creating an Alibaba cloud account with a payment method.
Overall, considering these factors, I'm not particularly impressed with this model.
Author: Daniele Ventriglia
First post: 30 January 2025
Last edition: NA
Copyright: Engineering and Data Limited, Hampshire, UK.
www.engndata.com
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